In July, 2013, one of the most followed and publicized criminal trials finished with a two word verdict that reverberated throughout the country.  George Zimmerman, who was charged and tried in the killing of Trayvon Martin, was acquitted.  His lead counsel, Mark O’Mara, became a household name.  I go on one on one with Mark O’Mara during this episode of Killer Cross Examination.

This is an incredible interview – one you do not want to miss.  O’Mara shares with me the moment that was approached to represent Zimmerman, what he thought about Zimmerman based on the news coverage and what he discovered as soon as he met him in the local jail.  He shares with us his courtroom style, his reverence and respect for the burden of proof and how he attempts to get jurors to relate to judging a case using the standard, beyond a reasonable doubt and even shares a story about his attempts to familiarize the jurors with the concept during the jury selection in the Zimmerman case.  O’Mara describes as his job, as a criminal defense lawyer, as “training prosecutors” (teaser: he trains them by opposing them in court and winning and showing them the err of their ways).  He shared moments during the Zimmerman trial including his feeling about cross examining the lead detective and obtaining a startling admission and asking the judge to break for the day so the jury would go home with the latest bit of testimony in their heads, how they divided up the work between he and his co-counsel, his feelings about the prosecution team, how he felt during a cross examination to Trayvon Martin’s mother and how he used the prosecution’s doll as an exhibit to tell his client’s case.  If you want to hear the man himself take us deep into the Zimmerman defense, do not miss this podcast.  

But he shares more than that – he discussed how the Zimmerman case broadened his practice and how a family of a young man, Adrein Green who was killed by the police in the same city that the Zimmerman/Martin incident happened, turned to him to attempt to get justice. Since then, he has taken on more and more police misconduct and police brutality cases and become involved in cases in which he is suing or litigating against large drug companies and other corporations on behalf of a large group of plaintiffs.  

Talking to Mark, I can tell that he passionately loves being a trial lawyer:  he shared that if he could, he’d try a case a day.   If you want to learn more about Mark, visit www.omaralawgroup.com, on twitter at @markomaralaw or on instagram @omara_lawgroup.   

Please be aware we are relying on impressions, recollections, memories and interpretations.

Connecticut Magazine called Norm Pattis, the Connecticut civil rights and criminal defense lawyer, the Defender of the Despised. It is a mantle he wears proudly.  If you read about a criminal case in Connecticut, there is a good chance that Pattis represents the client, passed on the case or is in talks to take it over.  His clients include Alex Jones, the controversial conservative firebrand and host of Infowars.  Pattis is my guest on this week’s episode of Killer Cross Examination.

I’m still reeling from the amount of information that Pattis shared with me during this episode.  Pattis, who has won millions of dollars in civil rights verdicts including in some of the most improbable of cases, e.g., Kevin King (just look the case up – Kevin King Prison Abuse) and obtained acquittals in too many cases to count.  Recently, he obtained an acquittal in the high-profile case of Saifullah Khan, the college student accused of committing a sexual assault upon a fellow student.  Pattis’ shares his background growing up in Detroit and how his hard knocks youth gave him the chip on his shoulder that motivates him to this day. Pattis shared trial tips and strategies including the “Acid Rain” cross examination: drop after drop after drop of unrelenting acid rain that eventually, slowly, methodically kills the witness.  Pattis described his jury selection style as looking for “bounce”, who can he sit down and talk to at a bar and who “gives you something back.”  Pattis discusses how as a lawyer he deals with “inconvenient truths”, those facts that hurt his case but that he needs to own.  He shares his “zipper method” style of cross examination and cross examination preparation, how he insists on learning the science to combat expert witnesses, using voir dire of the expert to get into and under the skin of the expert before the jury sees the cross examination and how he has physically gotten on the table and on the floor to make his points during cross and trial.  When he senses blood in the water, as he puts it, he goes for it.   Pattis actually uses the courtroom as theater.

Let me tell you something — if you are looking for a trial tips, closing tips, analogies, metaphors, etc., you’ll have to watch this interview with Pattis multiple times.

Pattis has written 3 books, is a nascent stand-up comedian, writes a blog and hosts his own podcast, Law and Legitimacy.

Please be aware we are relying on impressions, recollections, memories and interpretations.

If you want to hear how one of America’s best and most visible trial lawyers does her business, you want to listen to this episode. Do not miss this episode.

This week, I go one on one with a former Court TV host and high profile civil rights lawyer, Lisa Bloom.  While Lisa is the daughter of one of America’s most successful and committed civil rights lawyers, Gloria Allred, Lisa has made her own mark in her career and is no stranger to the spotlight.  She has represented individuals and plaintiffs against comedian Bill Cosby,  Fox Host Bill O’Reilly, Rep John Conyers, former President Donald Trump, Guess CEO Paul Marciano, Hollywood Producer Akil David, the Los Angeles Police Department and countless other power moguls and figures.  Lisa actually hosted several shows on Court TV including one that she co-hosted with Vinnie Politano, who still hosts a show on Court TV to this day.  She can be frequently seen providing legal commentary offering her insight on legal issues and high profile cases including the Chauvin-George Floyd trial.  Lisa is one of America’s foremost civil rights lawyers and has successfully advocated for sexual assault victims, victims of police misconduct, harassment and discrimination victims.  Her victories include, obtaining an 11 million dollar verdict against Hollywood producer Akil David and obtained a confidential “epic” settlement for former supermodel Janice Dickinson against Cosby.

This is not an ordinary interview of Lisa.  This is probing.  She talks about growing up in her mother’s (Gloria Allred) shadow, striking out on her own and building her own name, her experiences as a female trial attorney, the double standards she experienced and experiences as an aggressive female trial lawyer, fighting the powers to be, how she conducts voir dire, she uses the “Me Too Movement” to identify favorable and unfavorable jurors, how her opponents attempt to prejudice the jury against her using her celebrity status and high profile cases, battling Bill Cosby, fighting Bill O’Reilly, going after Rep John Conyers, representing the downtrodden and minimum wage earner against the powerful, her preparation, her style of questioning, when to make it about the witness (direct examination) and when to make it about the questioner (cross examination), when to speed things up, when to slow things down, when to raise her voice and when not to, etc.  She shares the one person she wants to cross examine the most and why.

Please be aware we are relying on impressions, recollections, memories and interpretations.

On this episode of Killer Cross Examination, I go one on one with Michigan’s Attorney General Dana Nessel.  Many don’t know that Dana began her career in the Wayne County Prosecutor’s Office and quickly developed a reputation as a firebrand courtroom prosecutor.  In this episode, she shares her style in the courtroom, how she used her humor and sarcasm, how she prepared for court and how she found her voice.  

She shares meaningful cross examination stores about being so eager to begin question an adverse witness that she was jumping out of the chair and how on two (2) occasions, she put or found herself in physical danger in murder trials inside the courtroom.  I also ask her point blank about the double standard that she experienced as an aggressive female trial lawyer and how she is using her experiences as a criminal defense lawyer in her current role as Michigan’s chief law enforcement officer.  This is not your normal interview of a politician.  This is an episode that you will not want to miss.

Please be aware we are relying on impressions, recollections, memories and interpretations.

What do Michael Jackson, Winona Ryder, Chris Brown, Colin Kaepernick, Susan McDougal and Scott Peterson all have in common? All were at one time or another defended by Mark Geragos, the legendary lawyer from Los Angeles, California.  I go one-on-one with Geragos during this episode of the Killer Cross Examination Podcast and Geragos delivers.

He discusses his courtroom style, his use of humor and the way that he attempts to turn all witnesses into defense witnesses.  He shares his experiences in the trenches and talks in intimate detail about the Scott Peterson trial, his defense of Whitewater figure Susan McDougall and obtaining back-to-back acquittals for her against the odds.  He shares his background as an Armenian and how’s helped seeks justice on behalf of Armenians and those of his Armenian descent who were victimized in the Armenian Genocide.  This is an episode not to be missed. 

Please be aware we are relying on impressions, recollections, memories and interpretations.

In the history of criminal defense and trial lawyers, there are only a few, who become household names. F. Lee Bailey is one of those lawyers. At various times in his life, he was considered America’s go-to lawyer. He has been involved in several so-called “Trial’s of the Century”. His clients include:

• Sam Shepherd, the wrongly convicted doctor that was the basis for the movie and tv show, The Fugitive;
• Boston Strangler;
• Patricia Hearst, the daughter of the one of America’s richest families who was kidnapped and then joined the SLA, Symbionese Liberation Army;
• George Edgerly, the first polygraph defense case;
• Ernest Medina, the court martial related to the My Lai Massacre; and,
• OJ Simpson, to name a few.

Bailey graced the covers to Newsweek and other magazines related to his rise to prominence. He has written at least 20 books including, The Defense Never Rests, For the Defense, To Be A Trial Lawyer, When the Husband Is The Suspect, Excellence in Cross Examination and his latest book, The Truth about the OJ Simpson Trial, By the Architect of the Defense. In our one on one we discuss Bailey’s direct, rapid fire and assertive cross examination style. He discussed how he approaches he different witnesses by circling them, luring them into complacency and pouncing on them using speed, precision, pace, word choice and logic. In our conversation, you’ll hear trial stories, war stories, cross examination, strategies from the most famous lawyer in the 20th century. We discuss the state of lawyering, the state and quality of current cross examinations,  Marcia Clark, Christopher Darden, Johnnie Cochran, OJ, Robert Shapiro, Judge Ito, Mark Fuhrman and the best cross examination of a crime scene officer I’ve ever seen, Sgt Rossi, who responded to the Bundy murder scene. We talk about the glove, the jury and more. Bailey discusses defending Patricia Hearst, the heiress who made international headlines when she was charged with bank robbery and more. He discusses how he got hired, his involvement, the impossibility of the defense and his incredibly powerful cross examination of the government’s psychiatrist witness Dr Joel Fort.

Bailey tells you his secrets to his swaggering style: don’t use notes, don’t take your eyes off the witness, look for signs of a struggling witness, use pace and speed. His style has been called swaggering and tenacious.

I have read all of lawyering books and you can tell I have a great admiration for his courtroom swagger and style. During our interview, he will take you behind the scenes of one of the most storied careers in the history of trial lawyers. Even at this age, Bailey’s swagger is unmistakable. In the end, he pays this writer the highest compliment, saying that he knows a great trial lawyer when he sees one and points to yours truly.

Listen in as Bailey shares his secrets to his swaggering style: don’t use notes, don’t take your eyes off the witness, look for signs of a struggling witness, use pace and speed, and more. During our interview, he will take you behind the scenes of one of the most storied careers in the history of trial lawyers.

Please be aware we are relying on impressions, recollections, memories and interpretations.

Join us for Part 2 of our Killer Cross Examination Podcast as I go one on one with Jeffrey Lichtman, Esq, the El Chapo’s and John Gotti’s criminal defense lawyer. You don’t want to miss this.  The interview has been described as “two sharks on a zoom”.  A little about our guest –

If you’ve been in trouble in New York, know someone who has been in trouble in New York or followed the trials of El Chapo (yes that El Chapo) or John Gotti, Jr. (yes that John Gotti, Jr) than you know our guest, Jeffrey Lichtman.  Lichtman is perhaps New York’s most sought after criminal defense lawyer having defended El Chapo and obtaining acquittals for John Gotti, Jr.  His clients include rappers “The Game”, and “Fat Joe” among a veritable who’s who of those charged with crimes in New York.

Lichtman’s style of cross examination has been referred to as a “relentless pounding”, a bludgeoning, putting witnesses “through the blender and shreds[ing] them.” Lichtman is an advocate of “killer cross examination” and shares valuable tips, strategies and war stories that are both wildly entertaining for the non-lawyer and incredibly instructive for criminal defense lawyers and trial lawyers.  Lichtman shares with us never before revealed stories about his defenses of El Chapo and Gotti and also tells me about his preparation, work ethic, use of impeachment evidence, etc. and how he has to win for not only his client but for himself.

Jeffrey Lichtman is the principal and founder of the Law Officers of Jeffrey Lichtman and can be found at www.JeffreyLichtman.com.

Please be aware we are relying on impressions, recollections, memories and interpretations.

Join us for Part 1 of our Killer Cross Examination Podcast as I go one on one with Jeffrey Lichtman, Esq, the El Chapo’s and John Gotti’s criminal defense lawyer.  You don’t want to miss this.  The interview has been described as “two sharks on a zoom”.  A little about our guest –

If you’ve been in trouble in New York, know someone who has been in trouble in New York or followed the trials of El Chapo (yes that El Chapo) or John Gotti, Jr. (yes that John Gotti, Jr) than you know our guest, Jeffrey Lichtman.  Lichtman is perhaps New York’s most sought after criminal defense lawyer having defended El Chapo and obtaining acquittals for John Gotti, Jr.  His clients include rappers “The Game”, and “Fat Joe” among a veritable who’s who of those charged with crimes in New York.  

Lichtman’s style of cross examination has been referred to as a “relentless pounding”, a bludgeoning, putting witnesses “through the blender and shreds[ing] them.”  Lichtman is an advocate of “killer cross examination” and shares valuable tips, strategies and war stories that are both wildly entertaining for the non-lawyer and incredibly instructive for criminal defense lawyers and trial lawyers.  Lichtman shares with us never before revealed stories about his defenses of El Chapo and Gotti and also tells me about his preparation, work ethic, use of impeachment evidence, etc. and how he has to win for not only his client but for himself.  

Jeffrey Lichtman is the principal and founder of the Law Officers of Jeffrey Lichtman and can be found at www.JeffreyLichtman.com.  

Please be aware we are relying on impressions, recollections, memories and interpretations.

As a child, I was labeled a “bad kid.”  I had ADHD before anyone had really considered it an ailment.  But people want to know more about how I got here … to this point and a part of that story is how I came to relate and empathize with the little guy, the outcast and you can’t understand that part of me without knowing about my youth.

I’ve said that defending the little guy is in my genes, my blood and in my DNA.  People have asked how did I get here? How did I become an advocate for the accused, disregarded and ostracized?  To those who want to know and those interested in how someone like ends up being constructed — how I get here and what makes me tick — this episode is for you.

In this episode, I share some painful stories about my youth.  My unpopularity, my feelings of being an outsider and my diagnosis of ADHD in the 70’s!  To those parents whose children suffer from ADHD or ADD, I’ve offered an opportunity to reach out to me.  To those kids, suffering from it, I make the same offer.  Reach out … you can overcome and even in some ways, harness the condition and achieve.

Dr. Fagenbaum (the doctor that diagnosed me), Mrs. Snow (my first grade teacher at Pasteur Elementary in Detroit), Mrs. Carlton (a teacher of mine at Pasteur Elementary in Detroit), my mother, who dutifully packed my Ritalin pill every day for me to take a lunch, this episode is for you, and all the parents of kids who are on the fringe, this one is for you.

Please be aware we are relying on impressions, recollections, memories and interpretations.